I was recently interviewed by Almog Flitter on his podcast at Unstagnate, which aims to help others, who like himself, have a true and deep desire for self development and change. Its a place where he gathers advice from experts in many fields to help those with an open mind to continue there journey of learning and discovery of themselves.
The interview is below or you can listen to the whole episode here:
Full transcript:
Host: Hi boys and girls and welcome to this episode of Unstagnate, where we have inspiring guests and out-of-the-box ideas about self-development. In this episode – sex.
Host: Everyone wants better sex but very few people actually do something about it. My guest today is Eyal Matsliah. Eyal is a modern sexual educator. He’s helped countless men and women experience more pleasure and better orgasms, alone or with a partner. He wrote a book called Orgasm Unleashed covering a ton of aspects of female orgasms and has a course for men called Ejaculation Control Program. As you can imagine he’s also got a pretty interesting life story.
If you’ve been interested in Tantra, or should I say the Tantric approach to sexuality, but all the hippie wah-wah stuff always scared you away or put you off, you wanna keep listening. Eyal has a way of making sense, being practical, he has a ton of experience and is obviously very passionate about helping people improve their sex lives.
In this episode we cover how Eyal became a asexual healer and educator, why people get stuck in their sex lives in the modern word, common mistakes people make when trying to improve their sex lives and how people often deal with the symptoms rather than the underlying problem, the various orgasmic states women can experience, the difference between clitorial and internal orgasms and other various orgasmic states, and how women can become more orgasmic, why men can improve their entire lives as well as, of course, their sex lives by ejaculating less and what to do with all that excess hornyness and sexual energy that obviously follows when you ejaculate less. And so yeah, a very interesting, practical, paradigm-shifting episode. And without further ado, Eyal Matsliah.
Host: Eyal, why don’t you tell people how does one become a sexual educator?
I think for most people when they think sexual education they think about highschool and an awkward teacher that tells you about the birds and the bees.
Eyal: By the way, I’m happy to be here.
Host: Thank you. We’re sitting in a Eyal’s house in Melbourne, Australia and sipping on teas on a mildly cold day by the way. So if you hear us sip, that’s what’s happening.
Eyal: We are both Israelis speaking with a funny accent, I think that’s a bonus. How did I get to this? So I was fascinated by sexuality my whole life, and I was actually the kid at the sexual education class asking the questions that nobody else was asking and sometimes questions that teachers did not want to answer
Host: Like what?
Eyal: Like how do lesbians have sex?
Host: OK. [laughs]
Eyal: I was always the one. I was like a young scientist that was playing with my next-door neighbor when I was six, he was five.
Host: That’s called science these days.
Eyal: Yea and it was like… but it was kinda like an exploration. It wasn’t like: “Oh, let’s be naughty”. It was like: “Oh, let’s conduct research, what’s going on there”. I was also a shy kid. It was a combination of sometimes I was very sure of myself, sometimes I was shy, and so for years I didn’t have sex, and when I did have sex for me its was “ Let’s enjoy everything” – every, smell every noise, every expression of the woman that I was with. And also I didn’t have sex until a very late age which is twenty.
Host: OK.
Exal: For me I consider it late, which means for all of my teenagehood I was making out and making out actually is one of the most important things in knowing how to be a good lover, knowing how to have great foreplay.
Host: So the secret is to have frustrating years as a teenager and then you come…
Eyal: Yeah, yeah [laughs]
Host: That’s your first take-home message audience!
Eyal: Not so much the frustration, but more like the hours upon hours upon hours of doing everything but penetrative sex.
Host : Right.
Eyal: That really I think was what primed me. And also another thing is that I did not watch porn. Instead of porn I was reading martial art novels about ninjas and samurai and whatever.
Host: Can I stop you there, I’ve got a question about that. So I know that when I grew up… By the way this podcast is pretty explicit and there might be a bit too much information, so if you guys aren’t comfortable with that that’s time to hit the stop button, but when I grow up I didn’t grow up watching porn at all even when I did start becoming more sexual, it was more about erotica. It was more about Playboy and when the internet came by I was an early adopter and kinda like getting Playboy images of naked women onto the screen which, in retrospect, seems so innocent seeing what people are exposed to today so, sorry to interject, but I guess that maybe was part of it just because you had a lot of mystery to uncover when you actually had sex for the first time.
Eyal: It was mystery and also I didn’t get brain-washed into the wrong kind of images. When I said wrong it’s not so much a judgement but compared to how sex can be loving and sacred I don’t believe that modern day porn and hardcore porn doesn’t give really the right impression or the right education for people.
Host: OK, so we’re kind like still in your teenage years; how does one go from being a frustrated teenager that eventually has sex 1st time when they’re 20. Take us to like the next point in your journey to become a sexual educator.
Eyal: So I had, I started to be more and more sexually active, especially when I start travelling I went to Thailand to a small island called Ko Pha Ngan.
Host: So we both spent time in Ko Pha Ngan. By the time I arrive and spend some time in Ko Pha Ngan Eyal was gone but his spirit was floating around the place and I had come to hear of him and we only met a few years later.
Eyal: When I was there I started to have lots of sexual explorations and some of theme I was lasting, you know, very long, some of theme I was cumming the moment I would penetrate the woman and I would never I couldn’t figure it out. How can sometimes, I can literally make love, penetrative sex for an hour with a woman and other times and other women I would penetrate them and I’dbe done. And then I discovered what’s… I discovered a Tantra workshop, there was a Tantra workshop on the island. I did the Tantra workshop and literally my life changed. That was nearly 11 years ago 2005. And then I started practicing, which is having sex – sacred sex, loving sex, meaningful sex, it was just a one night stand for me it was never about…
Host: Wait wait, I’m sure everyone is asking, I’m asking, like, what did you learn in the tantra workshop? What was the one big idea you learned there if you had to like…
Eyal: Some of the things I learned I already had a feeling, a hunch on before
Host: OK.
Eyal: And they just confirmed to me and my previous experiences about sex. Practically… Sorry, even before [Unintelligible]Theoretically that sex can be part of your life practice, part of your spiritual practice. I honestly wanted just to be a better lover, actually people remind me that I actually sat there in the restaurant and said: “ I just come here to be to have better sex”. And one of the things they told me is, for example, that the men doesn’t have to ejaculate: it’s actually better for a man not to ejaculate every time he has sex, minimize ejaculations. There’s different kinds of orgasms both men and women. There’s something called” sexual energy” and you learn how to feel your sexual energy, how to control your sexuality, how to move your sexual energy.
Host: Beautiful.
Eyal: I started learning this and then I would practice and would I have a lot of sex and when I was having a lot of sex sometimes I would have to pause or to stop penetration and I didn’t just, you know, twiddle my fingers, or rather I sued my fingers in order to pleasure my woman and give her vaginal massage what’s called Yoni massage and after a few years women were telling me: Oh, you’re really good with that, you really should offer this as a service”.
Host: I see. So it was a lover that just said: “Hey, you’ve done a lot of good by me, you should offer other women the gift of your vaginal massage”.
Eyal: Yeah
Host: And then what does that do for a woman except for just pleasure, ‘cause I know there is something else there, right?.
Eyal: This kind of sexual healing includes more than just viganal stimulacion. It includes whole body touch and even beyond the physical touch and it includes how you hold presence when you are with another person, with a woman for example, and the three benefits for this kind of work is pleasure, healing and power
Host: We will get into all of that cause we’ve actually sat and chatted about some stuff that we’re gonna cover today before we started talking about, but then following that you started a website, you have a website online at some point and…
Eyal: So before that I started doing sexual healing for people, one of my very first clients by the way is a woman named Layla Martin which is now one of the biggest sexual educators, one of the biggest let say upcoming, rising sexual educators in the world.
Host: She has a popular Youtube channel right Layla Martin. L-a-y-l-a Martin.
Eyal: So I started doing this and people started asking me: “ How do you do this how do you do that?” and I started holding workshops. My first workshop was like 50 people in front of me in my garden it was like one of the first times I held a workshop, so I started doing this more and more – I open a Tantra school in Australia. I opened the website and started working on the book, a blog… create the blog and so I started expressing my experience and my insights and my knowledge about this in various ways.
Host: Your website is intimatepower-5df041.ingress-daribow.ewp.live, right? Great name by the way. I love it. I love the Yin and the Yang theme that’s going on there. So, we’re starting to get into the nature of your work, and if I was to ask you about the nature of your work a question that would be very interesting is, you know, this podcast is about getting unstuck. People get stuck in their sex lives… where do people get Stuck? What’s a point where people get stuck?
Eyal: I think that people… and again, excuse me for generalizing, but I think some generalizations are still true, is that people are looking for the magic pill. People look for a solution, and they always think the solution is outside of themselves.
Host: Right.
Eyal: So it’s two things. One of them, it’s external and the second thing it needs to be like fast and easy.
Host: Right.
Eyal: Somebody would deal with some sexual issue for twenty years and they want the fast and easy solution.
Host: Which is outside of themselves?
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: Sounds like, yeah… Sorry, you say fast and outside of themselves and I immediately think about a vibrator.
Eyal: Yeah. A vibrator for women is one example.
Host: OK. What are other examples?
Eyal: We can go deeper into why a vibrator is actually not serving for women. I’m not saying that it’s bad, I’m not saying that anything is bad. I’m just saying there I “serving” and there is “not serving”.
Host: OK.
Eyal: So this is one thing which thing which is not serving women because they get dependent on an external device. They receive a stimulation which is unnatural and that no man or woman can actually provide them. And it also becomes very much clitoral-focused, and there’s a whole wall inside that can be awakened, and there’s other stuff as well.
Host: So I want to just stop there for a second. and play devil’s advocate because you said “serving” and “not serving” and it’s clear for you that distinction, but for a lot of people listening, maybe the distinction isn’t that clear. Maybe they think to themselves: “Well, you know, who is this guy to tell me my vibrator is wrong, the vibrator that I use, the vibrator that I use with my partner is wrong when I just get pleasure out of it. What’s wrong with getting pleasure? What’s wrong with being, with enjoying myself? And I think it’s important to hear your point of view.
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: Because it’s not moralistic, it’s different.
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: What do you mean by the fact that you say it doesn’t serve them?
Eyal: That’s a great point And as a side-note, I’m not telling anybody what to do, so Just… I have my knowledge, my experience, and whoever wants to try is welcome to try. It is a very fair question by the way that some women would say. It’s like: “You are a man, how do you know?”. So I never had a clitoral orgasm or a g-spot orgasm or whatever, but I have been with many women, either making love or working with them as private clients. And also I’ve written a book that was endorsed by women and by sexual practitioners. The book is called Orgasm Unleashed: Your Guide to Pleasure, Healing and Power, available at Orgasmunleashed.com.
Host: And Amazon Bookstore?
Eyal: And yeah, Amazon, Kindle, the whole thing. So yeah, I’m not a woman but I did write a book for women that women say that really served them. So I just wanted to say that.
Host: Yes.
Eyal: And your question was about “serving” and “not serving”?
Host: Yes.
Eyal: With a clitoral orgasm, and again I’m generalizing, but many women want to experience clitoral orgasm. The next second after the orgasm the clitoris is becoming hypersensitive. It’s kinda like: “Uh, don’t touch it!” It’s kinda, you know, electric, hypersensitive and they feel like… little bit feeling like they’re done. At least for a few seconds it’s like you know, that’s it. And I couldn’t understand it when I was starting my sexual exploration. I was going down on a woman and she would have an orgasm, and a second later she would push me away. This is one thing. The next thing is that many women, they can continue, but in some ways they feel done. And this feeling of “done” is not exactly a deep feeling of satisfaction. It’s more like “I ticked a box, had an orgasm on to the next thing”.
Host: Right.
Eyal: And it feels like MY orgasm, not our orgasmSo a woman would feel that her orgasmis very much sharp, short… It can be strong, it’s pleasurable, ‘m not saying it’s not pleasurable, but there’s also another world of orgasm, And I’m wondering if people are listening, and they never had this other world of orgasm, ask yourself – if there was another kind of orgasm that was stronger, that was more meaningful, that was much longer, would you like to experience it?
Host: Right. It’s very interesting by the way to listen to you speak about these things because I had seen you do a talk about female orgasms in a festival not long ago, maybe a month and a half or two months ago called ConFest in Australia, and at the time I was dating a woman who had problems having anything but clitoral orgasms. And when I shared those ideas with her, she was quite resistant, and I’m wondering what you think about that. If… because mostly your clients would be people that seek you out, or that are open to something else. But what if someone isn’t very open to that idea?
Eyal: Yeah, so, not just with my clients, I think with my website, people arrive at my website because they have an issue and they are googling something. Or they… I post articles on other websites and so on. So suddenly they see the title and it’s something that they’re interested in. People are attracted to my content because they are already facing something, so they are a little bit more open to changing. And if somebody has a resistance I would say: 2Why do they have the resistance”? And I’m not blaming them for the resistance because people are brain-washed. The feminist revolution in the sixties, you know it’s like they discovered, it’s like they invented the clitoris. The clitoris didn’t exist before the sixties. So women got more rights and they became sexually liberated, which is great, but they got into a place where they actually know less about their bodies than what is actually out there. Or let’s say in there.
Host: Yes.
Eyal; OK. So if there are women who are holding on ot cliteral stimulation I say: “Enjoy clitoral stimulation. ” And I teach women how to have cliteral stimulation but turn it into whole-body orgasms. .
Host: I guess the openness has to be there, or the willingness has to be there because it sounds like it’s not a very easy practice. So as we already ended up in this corner of our conversation, let’s talk more about that. So, what kind of sexual transformations do you help women facilitate and what are your major ideas about female sexuality? How do you help your clients with that?
Eyal: For both women and men by the way, I would focus… I would start with themselves.
Host: Yes.
Eyal: So again, people are looking for… you know, it’s like “I need a man that would make me orgasm. I need a woman so I could feel like a man”. And I would always say. “Start with yourself”. The first step I think in everything that you do in life is self-love. Loving yourself, accepting yourself for who you are and honestly I’m still dealing with this; I’m still on the path of great and deeper self-love. And I can say that as I’m loving myself more, people are loving me more. I’m loving other people more… Everything around me becomes easier and it flows better.
Host: What I like about what you just said is that you touched on that point that we said before about how the answer isn’t necessarily outside of yourself and quick, but rather inside yourself and is a process.
Eyal: yeah.
Host: It takes a while. By the way, before we started the interview we talking about how quick, out-of-yourself solutions are the kind of stuff that women would read about in Cosmo magazine or like “Five tips for…” I don’t know, what did you say?
Eyal: ” Five aphrodisiac foods that would make you orgasm”. Or “Five positions to have a g-spot orgasm”.
Host: What’s the equivalent for men by the way?
Eyal: Pff, I don’t know, “Five ways to drive her wild in bed tonight”.
Host: Yeah, right. OK.
Host: So it’s like “Five ways to last longer tonight” I don’t know if you wanna get to it right now, but they would suggest things like pills and creams and wearing like three condoms and thinking about football or whatever. So people are giving the wrong advice, and this is why people have mixed results and inconsistent results. So in going back to your question, what the first thing and the most important thing that I would recommend people to do, again after they o into self-love, is to love themselves physically.
Host: Right.
Eyal: And I sometimes say or joke about that…. Not even joke, I actually say that the secret to great sex is knowing how to have great sex with yourself. And this is where it all starts from. And many people would say like: “Oh, I love sex, but I can not have sex with myself”. And if people are having sex with theirself they’re having very shallow, very technical, a little bit meaningless sexual experiences with themselves.
Host: So you’re not using the word masturbation by the way?
Eyal: Yeah. So most people masturbate or jerk off. and by the way, if you jerk off it makes you a…
Host: Jerk?
Eyal: Yeah. So again, I’m not saying it as a judgement like “Oh you’re wrong and you’re going to go to hell”. If a man is masturbating and ejaculating every day, it’s not wrong – I’m just quite sure that he doesn’t feel so good about that, that he’s aware that it has negative effects on his life. It is dis-serving him. And if a woman is addicted to her vibrator, it’s also not serving her. So I would say go into what I call “self-pleasuring”. And self-pleasuring or self-loving, physical self-loving is first of all about connecting with yourself, connecting with your body. It’s not about orgasm, it’s not about… It’s first of all having that…Making love with yourself! And the next phase is…
Host: That’s pretty interesting. Maybe just for thirty seconds tell me what that means. Tell our audience what that means, to connect with yourself.
Eyal: A lot of sexual things that we do are very technical. So for example, as a man we would bring fiction to our cocks and it’s like, the very famous masturbation gesture, you know the five against one you know the… Your fist, your hand around your cock and that’s…
Host: Right.
Eyal: And for women it’s using your fingers to masturbate, and again, it’s not wrong, but there’s so many levels to it. There’s also deeper ways to self-love. And a deeper way to self-love is going to the pre-pubescent way of touching yourself. So you see, many times you see kids touching their genitals before they orgasm, before they ejaculate. It’s like, they’re enjoying their connection with their body. And then society, you know usually their parents would say: “Ah, don’t touch there! Don’t do that”. I would go to that innocence first. As human beings we enjoy touching our genitals. we have pleasure from touching genitals. So without thinking, you know, g-spot orgasms, or becoming multi-orgasmic man, whatever, just hold your cocik, hold your pussy and have another hand on your heart. And just rest.
Host: Right.
Eyal: Instead of going into intensity and friction and stuff. Just explore that connection.
Host: Yes.
Eyal: So that’s the very basic thing.
Host: And the “hand on the heart”, what is that?
Eyal: I see it as a very grounding, a very nurturing position. So you’re making a connection between your genitals and your heart. And that’s a very soothing thing as well, because sometimes when you’re working on this stuff, you might have some stuff coming up. Not just women, there’s kinda like this idea that only women have sexual trauma. Men have sexual trauma as well. I had some stuff in my childhood that wasn’t amazing, that wasn’t huge, but you know, some stuff happend. So first of all exploring that connection. The second thing is to explore how much different kinds of touch, sensation and pleasure you can have. Without even orgasming, without even getting close to orgasm. The next level after that would be to see how much pleasure you can have, and how close you can get to the point of no return, both for men and for women, which means how close you can get to orgasm without actually orgasming.
Host: So the point of no return is called the point of no return because even if you stop touching yourself at that point, you will orgasm?
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: Right.
Eyal: And again, both for men and for women. You know when women have… If they’re having clitoral stimulation there is a certain point that if they continue beyond that, the pleasure will shoot up and then they will have a clitoral orgasm and then it’s a little bit game over.
Host: That sounds very difficult. Kind of trying to get that close to an orgasm, getting there, KNOWING that you’re there and just pulling away.
Eyal: I have a… I like to make things very practical. I study Tantra, I know that there’s a lot of dogma, there’s a lot of, you know, stories in Tantra and it’s… I like to teach in a way that is practical. I have a very very simple model, and part of the model is three steps which are very very easy for everybody to understand. And the three steps are: feel, stop and move. Which means: Feel how aroused you are; stop before you’re too aroused; and move the sexual energy.very easy – feel, open, move. It’s not rocket science. And the way for you to feel how aroused you are is to self-pleasure, and then to see what are the signs in your body that show you that you are close, too close to the point of no return.
Host: And what does it mean to move the sexual energy?
Eyal: Oh, that’s a very good question because that’s… Moving the sexual energy is the thing which is missing from a lot of sexual education programs, teachings, whatever, in the world. So people are saying “Ah” for men, “Control your ejaculation”, and: “it’s not good to ejaculate”. Some people are aware of that, but they’re not giving their practitioners any special techniques, even not such a simple model like I just showed. Moving the sexual energy is the idea that, yes you can pause when you are too aroused, but then you have this thing called sexual energy in your genital area. If you don’t believe in energy you don’t have to believe in energy. You’re feeling heaviness, you’re feeling that your genitals are charged. You’re feeling that you’re constantly too close to ejaculation. It’s like a very sharp feeling. The other day I was making lve, and my coccyx felt like it was burning. It was painful.
Host: Coccyx is the tail bone?
Eyal: Yeah, my tail bone. And I was like: “Oh, wow, I really need to move my energy” ’cause there was so much energy there. And obviously it’s like, I don’t ejaculate for weeks and for months, so I have already some energy.
Host: But how does one move that energy? Is that a very complicated practice or is that a simple practice?
Eyal: It’s first of all an understanding that it’s possible.
Host: Riight.
Eyal: Because I believe that sometimes you have an idea