Around early-mid 2016 I interviewed Matt Schwenteck of www.uniquetantra.com who is a sexual healer and an educator. We go quite deep into sexual healing, Anal de-armouring. The dynamics of giving and receiving pleasure and Matt also shares some his personal challenges related to this line of work. It is really a deep conversation not just for sexual healers, but for everybody who is interested in sexuality and in growth.
We talked about what his job entails, Liquid Light Transmission, finding deeper pleasure, why men are afraid of de-armoring. We also talked about what in the past that motivates him to be a sexual educator when he actually decided to start charging for his gifts for his sessions, what is a Conscious Lover, and much more.
Find the full transcript below:
Matt: My entire body completely collapsed, my nervous system collapsed. I could not eat, could not sleep, and got really depressed, just lost 10 kilos. Every thought of sex was just completely disgusting, I did not want to have anything to do with sex and found myself on a balcony wanted just to kill myself……..
Eyal: Welcome to “Unleash your Full Potential Podcast” with me Eyal Matsliah. Today’s episode is an interview with Mat Schwenteck who is a sexual healer and an educator. We go quite deep into sexual healing, Anal de-armouring. The dynamics of giving and receiving pleasure and Mat also shares some his personal challenges related to this line of work. It is really a deep conversation not just for sexual healers, but for everybody who is interested in sexuality and in growth. So enjoy the episode.
Eyal: Matthias Schwenteck welcome to the “Intimate Power Podcast”.
Matt: Thank you very much for having me.
Eyal: So tell us a little bit what you do?
Matt: I am a Sexual voice broker, I am a facilitator for workshops,**01:18** let’s say good sexuality, for touch, for consent. **01:22** Caly Party facilitator since last summer. I am travelling around the world offering my work around touch, the art of loving touch, and “One on One” empowerment sessions for women, men and couples.
Eyal: So, that is quite a lot! Knowing it is like very important work. As a fellow practitioner it is like I understand some of those things, but which one of those are you most kind of passionate about? Like If you could pick one and do specifically that for a few months. What would you do?[2:03]
Matt: That is a good question. You know, in the deepest core of that, what is resonating with me I have started a couple of years ago was a specific topic that causes the liquid light transmission. And the liquid light transmission is something between lovers in the moment when we are just engaging in Tantric Love making, when we are just entering the orgasmic field where we’re dissolving into this place of unity consciousness of oneness and where something like liquid light between lovers starts to emerge in our fields. So we are coming this field of liquid light and this is where my deepest passion actually is , came from love making, was the part in my head, and that was my deepest call, my deepest longing, this is what I would like that everybody can find for themselves this is where my passion is.
Eyal: So how does that feel this liquid light thing? Sounds interesting!!
Matt: It sounds interesting! It is interesting. It is specifically when we are just going further then reproductive sex that normally **03:03** through **03:16** ends under what reaches 7.5 minutes, what normally happens with the orgasm of the man, the ejaculation. When we are just actually mastering this ejaculatory choice, this place of point of no return and can just like relax and expand in our energy field, there is something specifically happening in the woman’s body when we maintain our erection when we maintain our sexual energy, where the woman goes through her cervix or through her womb into an altered state of consciousness into multi orgasmic state of expansion, so she is opening up in the first place into this state of unity consciousness and something happens in our nervous system, in our pineal gland [4:00] that is releasing D.M.T what feels like a place of liquid light so this how I would describe that, and that happens through relaxation and enough time of engagement.
Eyal: How does that feel in your body as a man this liquid light thing?
Matt: It starts- That is an interesting question! – Where does it start? Somewhere in the genitals around the prostate, it is similar like a spike in the nervous system, which feels like a pee reflex. And is a similar sensation as if you were entering the point of no return as if you just start to ejaculate or when the orgasm starts to happen. The normal response from the nervous system is just like Ok “I am ready to release” Then comes an impulse from the brain as a spasm reflex in the genitals and it gives this kind of pumping and we ejaculate and this is something that is releasing all the neurotransmitters in the brain. But by relaxing into this ejaculatory choice just like to breathe and to relax into this pee reflex, what happens is like a spike, or the orgasmic response that happens like a spike it is kind of….. I call it like a spark. And the spark itself that has a specific quality of expansion and that starts to expend in every part of the body. Every part of the body starts to firing up and the heart opens up, the brain starts to get fired up and it is a beautiful state of ecstasy to be in. There is a wonderful work experience to that for some matter
Eyal: How is it possible for man to go beyond the seven and half minutes and experience that?
Matt: I had an interesting conversation the other day with a man who said [6:00] himself that he was not a Tantric practitioner; he was a martial art practitioner in his early twenties. But he was completely tantric and he had no idea about tantra. He was telling me when he was studying Martial Arts in his twenties that his teacher was telling him: “You just have to learn to relax your anus do not clench your ass”. That is one of the main things to learn… when we are just coming to this place where we want to maintain our love making when you do not want to jump into this place of orgasm, that we don’t go into this voluntary clenching and squeezing of our anus because it is the same impulse that the nervous system and our body has when we ejaculate, that is the key how to master that, how to master that choice.
Eyal: Any other tips, techniques, ideas how a man can last longer?
Matt: In the first place it’s really stop this clenching thing, stop this contraction and finally replace how does the body relax, how does the body find its place of completely opening up with this expansion, it’s like most man, and I was just one of them for more than 10 years, just like running through life and having this clench in my pelvic floor in my anus and that I had no idea it was actually super tight super tense, how to relax that is the specific form of external de-armouring in the genital area, the pelvic floor the anus the prostate and kind of just like coming into this place where we are just opening up and going deeper into our tissue in the genital area and the entire body to just releasing tension that is asking for this release of this contraction that we are carrying and relaxing into [8:04] this place of this tension that we are carrying, opening slowly up and learning how to breathe relax and expand and then just like finding this deep place of relaxation in our tissue. For some men it needs some work, really external de-armoring work.
Eyal: For those who are not sure what that means. What does external de-armouring means?
Matt: It is a specific way of body work. And this is about going into deeper layers of the tissue, into the muscular tissue and finds different areas of the body that is storing energy in form of contraction through shame, through guilt, through fear that we are carrying on our nervous system. It is a specific practice that causes Tantric de-armouring, where we are going into the genital area, where we are going into the pelvic floor, the anus and the prostate all the different areas in the rectum, around the pubic bone to releasing this tension and allowing the nervous system to relax in a deeper form of expansion when it comes into this high level of pleasure
Eyal: So this is something that the man would receive from somebody else I am guessing?
Matt: That’s right! A man can receive that from a woman, a female practitioner, the male practitioner. Man can do a lot for themselves. What is Internal work in the anus, sitting on a tennis ball and releasing different areas just going for external deep body work, it is very supportive of the body.
Eyal: So, you know, our listeners are quite open-minded. I have to say that I received anal de-armouring as well. [10:00] But some people would say, “Am I not gay if I do this?” What would you say?
Matt: Yeah!!. It is an interesting topic for most men, when they hear about anal-dearmouring, they are just becoming afraid of becoming gay. Because the anus is a specific taboo zone, and most men are carrying a lot of shame and guilt around the anus. **10:23** their nerves is just too related to fear and is actually really contracted and really clenched. But the anus itself has specific nerves that come through the spine, that’s the so-called Pudenda Nerve that goes in different branches around the anus, it goes into the sacrum it goes into the penis and it’s the same nerve that gives information as pleasure into the brain. So in the anus itself it’s just another universe of pleasure related to sexual energy that does not make the man gay when he feels pleasure in the anus. But specifically this feeling of pleasure related to the anus this is for most men it is a no go it does not exist. But in the moment when this is opening up it changes something in the complete perception of sexual energy and pleasure in the man.
Eyal: What would be a step toward going there? Say if somebody is listening and they are interested but they are willing to have even a woman put a finger in their ass. So what would be something as a beginner step, as an intermediate step that they can do?
Matt: So it is an Interesting question. So for men to release and relax into their anus in the very beginning. The first important step is to find pleasure in your genitals first, arouse yourself have an erection. Feel good in your sexual energy in the moment and then use something, just like maybe your finger in the first place, and start just like a very gentle and careful massage [12:00] around your anus and the entire pelvic floor and something that does not stretch the anus in the beginning too much. Just like is kind be gentle to yourself. Find different spots that allow you to feel pleasure, and from there you can go deeper in finding maybe spot that is painful and this painful spot this is something ** 12:25** that we ultimately try to avoid. But in the moment when we are finding them for ourselves we see that these are spots they are calling for a release, they are calling for liberation. An interesting thing about de-armouring we cannot de-armour ourselves, because de-armouring is actually a practice of allowing ourselves to see a defense mechanism that we have. So that we would feel for ourselves when we are just going internally or externally it is a complete different story as somebody else is touching us. And building a trust and safety enough to allow somebody to go to this place that allows the nervous system to release a lot of tension a lot of stress a lot fear, shame and guilt and all kind of stored emotions related specifically to the anus.
Eyal: And this is something that a man should receive regularly or you get a few de-armouring sessions and then you are good for life?
Matt: As soon as you just find deeper pleasure in your pelvic area, in your anus or in your rectum then nobody has to do anything. It is just to finding the release, and as soon as the release in this area has happened most men will recognize a much deeper way of liberation of relaxation in finding deeper layer of pleasure in love making and much more expansion [14:03] on the ejaculatory choice so the point of no return kind of is not an enemy anymore we have to fight or try to get away from because we can just simply relax into that and no man ever has to be penetrated in their anus from a woman or from another man. It just means that we can relax in love making because we do not have to clench anymore. But when we start to enjoy it and we start to find deeper layers of pleasure and ecstasy in our body related to our anus then we might choose to just like include our anus in our love making and our reflexes **14:36** and that is completely utterly free to each and everybody.
Eyal: I realized that we went so to speak very deep. How old are you?
Matt: 47.
Eyal: You are 47. You are looking good Matt man.
Matt: Thank you!!
Eyal: I was like **14:59**. How come you find yourself here as a sexual educator? What did you do in your past? What did you do that lead you here?
Matt: Hum!! Good question. So my path is almost 20 years ago or started almost 20 years ago I was in the age 29 something. My understanding of being a multi orgasmic man was like I can ejaculate as much as I want, and I had one of these experience where I did that, where I experienced that I could ejaculate in the night about 10 to 12 times as something like that. I was out losing energy; I was out losing my erection. Kind of to a point where my entire nervous system my entire body collapsed at the end of 20. I found myself in a deep depression
Eyal: At age of 20 was it?
Matt: 28!!
Eyal: 28!! Ok!!
Matt: Or 29 something like that. And my entire body completely collapsed, my nervous system collapsed. I could not eat, could not sleep, and got really depressed, just lost 10 kilos.[16:00] Every thought of sex was just completely disgusting, I did not want to have anything to do with sex and found myself on a balcony wanted just to kill myself. I had a complete breakdown and emotional breakdown started to cry and instead of jumping and killing myself I had a deep recognition of **16:18** find love for yourself and the word tantra. I did not know where the word tantra was coming from but I have heard it somewhere and that was a kind of a deep call to just go on that journey and since that I am dedicated. I completely gave my life to that and I just wanted to know everything that is around and then next morning I bought a book started to read and said ok: That’s me!! That’s me That’s me, and I said ok that is the path and this is what I want to walk in life. So I just went into different approach, for example The Neo Tantra, **16:58** through **17:24** I met Sashi and first these different facilitators from different teacher came along with the International School of Temple Art. Some of them were really resonating with me and some less and then I actually found that I just was really talented with my answer and educating people and showing them how I found it for myself. I started giving workshop with a very beautiful woman Helen Edwards *17:30** where we were combining tantra and shamanism and sacred sexuality. And then it starts to evolve people start to ask questions, people asked for sessions, people asked for deeper knowledge and it starts to evolve.
Eyal: And how was it in the beginning? Because one of the thing that I am promoting, talking about in my own work and in this podcast [18:00] it’s not just the idea of sexuality but the idea of expression, expressing your full potential, turning your gift into an offering for other people and also into an income stream. Where did you feel that you are ready good enough to work sessions?
Matt: That is a good question. I think we never get ready. I have done hundreds and hundreds of sessions since and before every session and before every workshop, everything that is happening I just drop it into a deeper place where actually I have to admit that I do not know anything. And whenever I just want to provide something where I think is a good thing for other people to know I actually step into a very arrogant place where I have to assume what is the right thing for others. But in the moment when I am just allowing myself to feel my vulnerable space I let everything occur as it needs to come for the best outcome for the person who is showing up then everything is provided that needs to happen. So the vulnerability, the insecurity before a session, before a workshop, before an introduction, anything else, in a festival ** 19:16** through **19:26** it’s to snatch on and becomes more, to meant that it is my ally, this is a part of my own self development in deeper layers of vulnerability and the unknown.
Eyal: If you do not mind, I really want to get that. Get something there which is, you studied, you went through workshop, you went through a student. When did you decide to become a practitioner?. Because I think there is a divide because many people during day time are going to work. Many people are going to workshops, reading books, following pictures and having you know private culture events and you know. When did you actually realize that you want to be a practitioner, [20:01] when did you actually decide to start charging for your gifts for your sessions and why?
Matt: It is an interesting question and topic. Remember that I had a quite ordinary life, like everybody has. They have a life like an ordinary life. You just have your place, you just live your life, you have your job, and you have your nine to five kind of thing more or less. I started to getting invited from friend and teacher just to co-facilitate workshops and it was known that I was into the tantric field since almost 10 years this time and he asked me to co-facilitate in his workshop and I recognized that I was really good in that what I was doing just like showing people through massage and sexual engagement. Showing people through massage and sexual engagement that I was capable of and easy capable of introducing people in that what I understood as this second…. **21:17** sexual energy into the expansion, into this joy, into this ecstatic multiple expansion of pleasure. That was sort of like fantastic and after the workshops there’s people that was just lining up and just wanted me to work with them and I just said yeah I can give because I have a gift, because I can… and everything for free. Then I came to this point and I was remember that I got completely exhausted and burned out and felt I do not want to do anything to anybody anymore. I am not interested in workshops in touching people and doing anything anymore. I am done and over it. [22:01] I felt that I was coming from a place that was completely empty. And then a friend said you know what: “this is time where you have to show up for yourself and you have to charge in an exchange because you give something in what is the exchange that is coming back, it is not enough that you see somebody completely happy and walking away and you do not have anything as an exchange, as an energy exchange there”. And that was a time when I say ok” I have a gift and I felt completely insecure how can I offer there? Because there is no book there is no education in there, there is no way like you are just becoming a Bachelor or you are becoming a Master and anything you just have to master yourself in the first place. I started to offer session in sexual initiation in this understanding of this ecstatic field that is how it started becoming a practitioner. So people said ok: “I have heard you just can do that and I just want to experience that. I have had my entire life bad sex, what is that Tantra thing about? What is that energy that is happening in there?” And I had book sessions
Eyal: What does Sexual Initiation mean?
Matt: Well it can be anything. It can be whatever people came for. Some people just need an initiation specifically man they just want to master the ejaculatory choice. Just how can I maintain my sexual energy? How can I reabsorb the sexual energy in my body? That might be an initiation into themselves just like in the first place do a detox to their body. Finding deeper layers of sexual pleasure for themselves.[24:00] And It might mean just getting off home and just feeding the sexual energy just for a while in your body without giving it and finding a different approach of sexual energy then that what we know. For women many women just only know sexual energy in the form of as a stress relief, the sleeping pill on the clit before they fall to sleep, or using a vibrator, or they just like never had an orgasm their entire life. Kind of showing that there is a different ecstatic universe and that how we are imprinted above our sexual energy what actually is possible and just taking layer of layer of layer away that people find into their own truth how to express how to express their sexual joy or their sexual pleasure.
Eyal: Humm! Waow!! So how we talked a little bit about women, sorry about men. How could women get to this state, to this ecstatic multiple extensive states?
Matt: I was just recently interviewed by a lady about that who just came to a session just before and she started just like an incredible movement 21 days cervix activation and pleasure activation. And that has been just like going around the world in different groups and there was a couple of thousands people and all of a sudden people recognizing me on the streets: ” I had seen you on this interview” So the main thing what I am starting to say in there is that just for a certain a period of time -and that is 3 weeks nearly- what the nervous system actually needs to reboot, to get off an addictive behavior. When women stop using the clitoral stimulation of the [26:00] gland of the clit as a stress relief and just let maintaining the sexual energy the neuro chemistry to detox to liberate and purify the sexual energy, something is happening in their nervous system in their physical body. And sexual pleasure is not only focused on this little spot as the clit it’s much more in an expansion internally of the vagina. Finding deeper layer around the G Spot, finding different areas as well along the anus and then at the end finding the deepest core of sexual activation what is the womb and the cervix what is in the nervous system related to the Vagus nerve, the deepest core of the para-sympathetic nervous system When that is done to get activated even by a conscious touch with the hands or **26:54**. Or was the conscious lover was capable of keeping this connection that is opening up something in the woman’s body that is far beyond any kind of sexual limitation that is based on the clitoral peek orgasm that is just the stress relief approach.
Eyal: You mentioned conscious lover. What is that?
Matt: Conscious Lover… First of all I would say that two people who found themselves, wearing connections within themselves to this life force energy, to sexual energy having a connection to nature, to life. Having life as the first lover, having an inner connection to their polarity as a second lover and then being capable of completely share without having any attachment or also having any goal in sexual love making from their partner [28:01] and that is already a deep layer of connection that is happening that is based on presence on connection, and having layers of consent and finding trust and safety with each other without needing the other person to feed something within themselves that they have not found. It is a deep layer of you are being committed to themselves and being committed to somebody else to go on a deeper journey without attachment.
Eyal: And how can a man, what does a man need to do – I am a very practical person- And also for me it is like ok: Give me the overstatement. Probably it would take. What are some things that the man needs to stop doing to become a more conscious lover?
Matt: In the first place i would recommend for man really become aware of sexual addictions. I think that is in our day to day lives in our society where we live in one of the biggest growing diseases is porno internet addiction. What that is creating is in the first place is a very deep disconnection trough their body and in a deeper place to women. Erectile dysfunction, premature ejaculation is one of the quickest growing misalignments that many men carry. **29:44**You kind of have getting off this addiction of porn getting off this addiction of constant ejaculatory repetitive pattern on a daily or every second basis, starting to finding deeper layers of pleasure.[30:01] Finding deeper layers of pleasure within themselves. And Intimacy with sexuality without getting off the body or the need to getting off the body. And that is a good first step to start with. And the first obstacle in their is most men finding a place of as soon as the body starts to reabsorb that sexual energy in the body it is a syndrome that cause the blue balls syndrome where many men are suffering from this massive pain in their balls in their testicles from this over production of sperm and fluid and this is one of the biggest secrets actually to release that. Because this is where most men go back to ejaculation or they go back to orgasm, and they say ok, ok that is not working for me, I just go back. I will just do something that works. Or man goes through phase of erectile dysfunction and then they recognize ok but I remember porn was working for me to get hot.
Eyal: So, so, sorry to interrupt you. So they start to practice those not forthcoming and suddenly they would have erectile dysfunction.
Matt: Yes, ok. Or premature ejaculation and all the dysfunction is coming up. Just being impatient and as well having a partner to be transparent with thus making this shift into another dimensional sexual engagement, having transparent opened communication of partners very supportive.
Eyal: Ok Well! One of the things that I really appreciate that I received from you. For years after I received it from Easter I really enjoyed the session that I attended I think it was in Berlin and another session that I attended in England so that was the subject of the wheel of consent. So maybe you want to tell us a little bit what is the wheel of consent? [32:00]
Matt: Yeah!! The wheel of consent is a product from a friend mental teacher Betty Martin it is a beautiful lady from Seattle. And the wheel of concern is something I **32:17** came across almost 5 years ago something like that. That has been changing my life already because I was aware **32:24** of inner intuition when something is not really right and you cannot really put your finger onto that and you do not know where is the misalignment. And that was already recognition of a truth that I had intuitively in my nervous system but all of a sudden I could just communicate that. That is a profound thing as well to integrate shadows on our nervous system as a bypassing mechanism when we cannot ask for what we want when we cannot say no and doing different stuff to just like goes there where we want to go. So the wheel of consent is a very simple structure that goes very deep into our nervous system, into our physicality and into our spirituality and in our emotional body. And that comes from two very simple questions. And the first question is: What I want somebody else’s doing to me? Is anybody else different? And then the question: What do I want to somebody else? And that is with: Is everybody else different? As well. And these two questions that are creating the four quadrants of the wheel of consent and the deepest part of engagement in the wheel is actually related to this specific thing of reaching out and doing and receiving. And reaching out and [34:00] doing and receiving what is related to that question: What I want to do to somebody else not for them but for myself? It is a healthy selfishness in that it is a healthy way of receiving that is so old it feels ancient and it is so old that it is related to our nervous system as an infant reaching out for our care giver. It goes so deep back in our nervous system related to oxytocin, how we have created our social engagement and being safe with others.
Eyal: Can you give an example, what does it really mean actually to be doing and receiving. It sounds a little bit like a paradox?
Matt: It is completely paradox. Most people have in their nervous system on their understanding a very clear approach that doing is related with giving. So giving a massage, but giving a massage might feel pleasurable as well we can receive when we give something. But the intention is in its rawness in its purity, how can we be completely connected to ourselves and doing something that feels only good for us. And doing and receiving what in the wheel of consent is called taking is very much related. When we are touching something in the first place….. I will just use something here on my hand to give you an example. This is something that man can start to find for themselves, how can you touch something – it does not matter what it is- How can you touch something while you are doing, my hand is doing,
But as well receive that pleasure. Because I am not giving to my phone,[36:04] my phone simply does not care. But this pleasure what I feel on my finger tips that is travelling from my finger tinger tips through my arm through my brain is literally in my nervous system receiving.
Eyal: For those who cannot see us Matt is touching an I-Phone in the most erotic sensual way I have ever seen. But what he is actually doing is creating sensations that he feels with his fingers. So what you are saying is that your fingers are feeling the sensations so you are actually receiving?
Matt: Right!! So I do and I receive so I take pleasure from an object. But when I just bring that to an engagement with a partner with somebody else it is just like how can I touch my partner in the first place for myself. And when I just find that for myself what pleasure is for myself not **36:56**unalleged to my fingertips but through my entire body and I have asked my partner for consent: May I fill you up ? May I touch you? And my partner **37:05** knows what is coming. And I enjoy myself on my partner she will most likely feel the same pleasure as a feedback loop in the nervous system and that itself creates an enormous way of sensuality and sexuality and engagement because it creates safety it creates connection.
**37:30**
Eyal: Why it is abusive? I know it is not. But some people might ask. It is like you are having sex, you are making love with somebody, you are having a sacred connection with somebody but you touch her for yourself. How is that good?
Matt: Because when actually you touch somebody for yourself, this somebody what is our lover in the best place has given consent, they know what is coming they are trusting us[38:02]. They actually love to be touched, they love to feel our own integrity and our own connection that we are having in our first place to our body. Because in the same moment when we feel ourselves, they can feel themselves. They can feel as feeling ourselves and feeling them so we are creating actually a deep layer o