I was just featured on the Tantrapunk podcast! We explored the cultural factors involved in compulsive ejaculation patterns in men, with an emphasis on the how and why to transcend the ejaculation trap.
We also discussed the insights into the sex industry and my vision of helping to raise consciousness about the potential of transformation through tantra.
Listen to the whole interview here:
http://tantrapunk.com/resisting-the-compulsion-to-ejaculate-with-eyal-matsliah-tpp75/
Full transcript:
Host: Hello dear beloveds. Welcome to Tantra Punk podcast episode number 75. I’m here with Eyal and we’re gonna talk about his work as a sexuality empowerment coach and specifically thoughts and best practices for when and how and the intervals of male ejaculation, how that affects our physiology, our spirituality and our relationships. So please, do you wanna give us a bit of your background and then we can get into some of your offerings and then the main topic?
Eyal: Hi. I’m very happy to begin. I’m a sexual empowerment coach and have studied and worked through years with sexuality. Obviously I’ve been a lover, and I’ve been interested in sex and sexuality most of my life. It’s always been a bit… I consider it was a bit different than other people. For example, I did not watch porn when I was younger or hardly ever. Instead I read books that very beautiful sexual descriptions in them that included the feelings and sensations and perceptions of people who were engaging in sex, rather than seeing penis in vagina what you see in porn.
For me it was always about healing and empowering others. There was obviously pleasure and enjoying sex as well, but many times it was about healing and empowering my partners, my lovers. And after a while I discovered Tantra in 2005. I realized I’ve been doing Tantric practices without even knowing that I was doing them, but then Tantra gave me the structures and the practices, and after a few years women started telling me: “You should offer this as a service!”, specifically then what I used to call Yoni massage. And then I thought like: “Who? Me? I’m not good enough, I’m not ready, I’m not certified. I’m not this, I’m not that.” And basically one of my friends said: “You’re already doing it, so just acknowledge it and just do it.” I started offering these services, Yoni massage and sexual healing, and it really took off and I became a sexual healer and sexual educator. I started holding workshops, held workshops all around the world. I published a book for women called Orgasm Unleashed: Your guide to Pleasure, Healing and Power, people can find it at Orgasmunleashed.com, or on my website intimatepower-5df041.ingress-daribow.ewp.live.
Host: Right.
Eyal: This book has been acknowledged by some sexual educators as the best female orgasm book they’ve ever read. It is basically a guide for women to make themselves deeply orgasmic by themselves.
Host: OK
Eyal: So they’re not relying on another person, and then they can share it with their lover. So yeah, that’s generally me. And obviously I do a lot of other things which is sexuality is a basis for personal development and success. I basically work with people, business people, entrepreneurs, creatives, holistic practitioners in order to use sexual energy to help them be more creative, to do what they love, to help other people and to make money from that. So yeah…
Host: Awesome!
Eyal: That’s generally it.
Host: That’s great. Thank you. Yeah, I’ve been kinda meditating on you and what I’ve been learning about you throughout the day and just really wanted to applaud the efforts of you and really everybody else in the field who is taking on this responsibility of re-sacralizing or making sacred sexuality again, but really bringing us… I think we’re still in the dark ages, I don’t think the dark ages ended, you know. So this really is the sexual enlightenment that we’ve been dying to have, and so introducing these concepts and giving people permission, getting past all the shame and the wounding, is such important work in this time. So I just wanna thank you for that and… Do you wanna give any more specifics of what your programs and coaching and classes kinda look like, and then we can focus on the elephant in the room, which is the male saving your seed conversation?
Eyal: I work with people on various levels anywhere from free talks that I give and festivals to weekend workshops like the one I have this weekend, online programs like Ejaculation Control Program and also a program for women that I’m releasing soon, all the way up to private coaching. I take people through 6 to 12 months of coaching journeys and this is part of the work and special education make people aware that people like me and others exist. In the same way that you have a tennis coach or a golf coach or a French coach or a cooking coach… You study things throughout your life, it’s also important to study about sexuality and to get coaching. I’m also coaching other sexuality educators in order to provide what I call holistic sexual services and not addictive (?). So yeah, that’s generally my offerings Again, intimatepower-5df041.ingress-daribow.ewp.live, intimate like intimacy, so intimatepower-5df041.ingress-daribow.ewp.live there’s more details about this. And again, if somebody of your listeners is interested, I’m very happy to have a quick call, obviously for free, and see if there’s any vibe, if there’s any fit to work together.
So, with ejaculation control, that’s something I’ve been very passionate about for the past 10 or 15 years. I started by myself, discovered Tantra I’m actually known in my school as one of the more serious practitioners around that, I mean the Tantra school I studied at. And for me still it was… What the school taught me was great, but I needed a simpler structure. People address or try to learn ejaculation control with the wrong approach.
They come to me and say “Ah, I know about squeezing, Kegels and whatever, or the start – stop method, what else do I need to know?” And I would say that this is the wrong approach because they’re focusing on the technique and they need to have a process, they need to have the structure to put this practice in place I have a 5 step model that I find really helped people to get it. I ran a webinar and talked about this model, and one of the people on the webinar said immediately after the webinar they made love, and he was able to last for an hour or so until his woman orgasmed for the 4th time. So this stuff really works! This is a very clear process. It all starts with Why. The first aspect, the first step of the process is understanding why ejaculating doesn’t serve you, specifically ejaculating too fast, but generally ejaculations at all, so when men ejaculate there’s different kind of effects that happen for them and effects on the connection with their partner. And I’m not saying that ejaculation is bad – it’s beautiful, it’s natural. But when you’re not a teenager anymore, after that initial excitement of ejaculation passes, there’s an understanding or there should be an understanding that sex and sexuality is not just about ejaculation – it’s about using the sexual energy to go beyond the bodily need. And once you’re able to do that, you have a huge power source available to you.
The Why is about recognizing this sexual energy, life energy that you’re losing every time that you ejaculate, and deciding to ejaculate less. The three main aspects of that are pleasure, love and power, which means you can become multi-orgasmic, the pleasure part is you can become multi-orgasmic and bring your partner into amazing, deep orgasms. The love part is that the sexual energy is transformed into love and affection and caring and connection with yourself, with your partner and with everybody around you. We can obviously do a whole episode just on that. The online program that I have has about 10 hours of videos on this topic, so there’s a lot to go into!
Host: Wow, that’s awesome!
Eyal: Yeah. Just to give your listeners the core of the model is that the last thing is power and men these days have either lost their power or they’re missing their power and they don’t know what power means, and this practice gives you control over yourself. And, for example, there have been men that were able to deal with issues with instant gratification and addictions by practicing ejaculation control, because once you are able to resist the very natural, very strong urge to ejaculate, you’re also more able to resist alcohol and caffeine and cigarettes and obviously drugs and so on. And by the way, I do personally consume some of those things, I’m not saying it’s all bad, but it’s all in moderation.
Host: Right, that’s a great point. [laughs]
Eyal: I would have a glass of wine three times a month or something like that, I’m not against that. Although I don’t smoke. Chocolate is my drug so…
Host: [laughs]
Eyal: But again, moderation. We’re still talking about the Why by the way.
Host: Yeah.
Eyal: If somebody’s listening and going like: “OK, we get it, we wish you would already get to the how we do it”, you’re missing the point because the Why is the most important part.
Host: Right.
Eyal: The stronger you are, the longer you last I’d say.
Host: Right.
Eyal: It also gives you in terms of power and self-confidence, it gives you the ability to attract opportunities to your life to manifest actual money. So if they think about the book Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill chapter 13 talks about sexual transmutation. Nobody understands what the fuck he means.
Host: [laughs]
Eyal: He hints on that, but basically what he’s saying is: 2Guys, stop spreading your semen to the wind.” He said something like this. Stop sowing your wild oats. And then the next… should I just briefly go to the next aspect, next steps of the…
Host: yeah, please, take as much time as you want and I’ll come back with questions.
Eyal: I wanna only just say this is all available, or at least some of it is available on a free training that I have also on the website, so I can just give you some snippets, but the rest of the interview ‘m happy to talk about stuff that I’ve never talked about in any program or podcast or anything.
Host: Cool.
Eyal: The next stages in ejaculation control, after you figured out your Why, are Feel, Stop, and Move. Feel means feel how aroused you are, and there’s this thing called the point of no return, many people already know about this. There comes a point, when you pass this point you already fall towards ejaculation. And the idea is you can stop before it’s too late, before the point of no return, and this is kinda like the start and stop method. So feel how aroused you are, stop before you are too aroused. But then the other missing piece, and the Why is a big missing piece that nobody’s talking about, and the other missing piece is Move, you can say that that’s the 4th step of the process. Feel… Gather your Why, feel, stop and Move. Move means moving your sexual energy from your genitals throughout your body and generally to your life, to your mission. And there are physical practices, there are visualization practices, energy practices… stuff that you can do by yourself, stuff that your partner can do for you, practices that you do outside sex as well to make it easier when you have sex. In the program I created this is one of the biggest parts because there’s something like 20 different yogic techniques, some of them very secret yogic techniques that are very powerful, and basically they work. The 5th aspect of the model is called Transform, which means that this practice is going to transform your life. So transform your life in order to support this practice.
Host: Awesome.
Eyal: That’s what I can say. This practice has changed my life, and it’s still an amazing practice that I intend to hold for the rest of my life, and it changed the lives of my clients and my students. It’s not about sacrificing something, it’s not like “Oh, I have to sacrifice my ejaculations!” No, it’s about experiencing new things, having more pleasure, becoming multi-orgasmic, bringing your partner to orgasmic bliss, connecting with her or him…
Host: Yeah.
Eyal: … In a very deep way that you have never experienced before. It’s about a new way of living.
Host: Yeah. [laughs]
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: You know what came to mind when you were talking about this – it’s the discipline that you hope to learn as a child about not spending all of your allowance at the candy store and saving up and going to your favorite restaurant once a month or yeah [laughs]
Eyal: That’s a beautiful example, I never thought about that. Instant gratification is buying lollipops and candies and whatever, but maybe you’re saving… I would save it like for a bicycle, cause that was my thing when I was a child. I had a fake BMX and I always wanted the real BMX. So yeah, it’s like not spending your money when you get it but saving it and saving your life energy. Good point.
Host: Just hearing you speak about it it came into my mind and I feel like.. I don’t know how many, but I’m one of, maybe not the only one who had a life history of not being shamed for self-pleasure in the home, in privacy. I was caught once and my mother was like: “It’s OK that you do that”, gave me a hug and didn’t give me a book or manual, or send me to Tantra temple school, but that was a positive imprint that wasn’t scarred by the way a lot of people are. Being shamed and then having to build these bad habits in the nervous system of being afraid, being nervous, being quiet, contracting, getting over with it quickly because you don’t know who’s gonna need to use the bathroom or you don’t have any privacy.
Eyal: Just to add to that, I fully agree with you and I actually had the similar negative experiences, and when I work with women either one on one in body work or via Skype, I do what I call sexual activation sessions for women who are interested and open to this which means I manage to help them to get into an orgasmic state without even touching them, by guiding them towards breath and sound and movement. And one of the things that I really noticed there is that women’s throats are usually blocked, and this is also something that Tantra says about the throat chakra. One of the reasons is that the women are used to shutting their pleasure sounds, so the pleasure sounds will be locked in the chest. And its related to women not having a voice and not expressing themselves in the world, not expressing their needs and opinions and their feelings. This is how sexual work can empower somebody outside of the bedroom.
Host: Right. Yes. I’ve seen the transformation, a kind of Tantra makeover before and after, where someone just becomes a blowtorch of energy, just totally present and alive and before they were really crippled and gnarled.
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: I know what you mean. So the template that I was describing of men who stumbled upon having this ability because their self-pleasuring ritual in childhood or adolescence was longer because they were really fully loving themselves and maybe ejaculating, maybe not, which is sort of having the freedom to be in a sort of zone, and then… it was never that big of an issue for me, lasting long enough with a lover, because I lasted long with myself! Cause why wouldn’t I? Cause I wasn’t afraid about it, you know? [laughs]
Eyal: Beautiful.
Host: It’s like the idea of reverse-engineering it so that you can teach it, and then finding the manuals and the scriptures and all these things that kinda reinforce a training methodology. Do you encounter or have to sift through that, finding where people are at with how their nervous system is trained with all those pressures and anxieties, and of course porn kinda driving you towards rapid ejaculation?
Eyal: Porn is obsessed with semen.
Host: Exactly, it’s kind of a cult.
Eyal: Yeah and it’s funny, because there’s a whole addiction and infatuation. I was infatuated with sperm when I started ejaculating when I was 13. And porn is still infatuated. Again, 99 percent of por. There’s like 1 percent of ethical, conscious porn, but 99 percent of it is just infatuated with penetration, cock inside pussy, r objectification of the body and the white stuff. That’s a whole different conversation, so what I would really suggest people is that the arousal should come internally, or from one’s own body and touch. I touch my cock, it becomes hard. It doesn’t always become hard d by the way, and if it doesn’t that’s also OK.
Host: Right-.
Eyal: So the deal is really to learn how to pleasure yourself and empower yourself and connect to yourself and not rely on external things, not even another person. That makes sense.
Host: Right. Have you dealt with cases where, I think we should get into the porn thing a bit cause I’m seeing this… I’m in my mid 30s and I feel blessed to have had very minimal access to porn through most of my adolescence and so I developed the positive habit I would say of developing a sexual imagination and therefore kinda haphazardly, in an unskilled way, I was using the energy to have fantasies and that would give me confidence, or that would give me more relation to kinda know what l like and who I wanna pursue, and just… Now I’d say that, using more skilled techniques, that the sort of hypnogogic, masturbatory, meditative metabation space is like a desktop environment for magic and manifestation and design. Porn just kills all of that if you’re not using imagination. So do you help guys guide meditation kinda retrain them to be more imaginative and more enticed by their own fantasy realm?
Eyal: Yeah. I would really usually suggest people to go cold turkey on porn. And there’s also good websites that do that, I don’t remember exactly the name, I have it somewhere in the resources for the program. So yeah, go cold turkey. Even if you don’t get hard and don’t get aroused, just gradually building that, cause sometimes it takes the brain to rewire a few weeks or even a month, but remember it’s about self-connection, not just self-pleasuring and not just about orgasms. So one of the things that I guide men is to relax with the demands that they put on themselves to perform. And in some ways it’s about actually connecting to their feminine side. The feminine side that feels, the feminine side that nurtures, because many men if you see them masturbating, they’re very technical, very harsh, very hard, and this is again the kind of sex that porn shows us.
Host: Yeah.
Eyal: So instead, just going slower, going softer and retraining your body to feel pleasure, to express pleasure. There’s obviously much more than that, but… I’m happy to talk about the sex industry and all of this because most of this stuff people can just find on my program. Again, there’s a 6- or 7-day free program on the website, so yeah, they can just check that out.
Host: OK So touching on the why and the how… and another rant that I saw you give, I don’t just wanna call it a rant, I wanna call it more like a treatise, a treatise on why we, not only why we should value this process of retaining the seed, but the integrity to… There’s many different schools of Tantra, but in general, the Tantric path of going from being a boy to a man to a god, embodied divine masculine being, requires that sexual Yoga practice, and either being celibate and practicing some sort of transmutation cultivation, or being on the left hand path as it were and having partners, but certainly valuing and honoring and holding sacred ejaculation and not just having it be frivolous.
I think if you google Tantra, you’re gonna find mostly untrained sex workers who may or may not have any training, but they just know that they can ask for more money if they use certain words in their advertising, and then it becomes a glorified rub’n’tug so to speak. And from my perspective, if they’re doing the value ad of breathing and chakra healing and energy moving and dressing up and using candles and incense and oil and that’s beautiful, because it’s not gonna happen in most other settings, but they also have the power to give more of a training or more of an offering, a teaching, to their client, which they may or may not have come for something like that, but you have some strong feelings about it, so I wanna give it over to you to kinda share that thesis, and then we can talk about it a bit.
Eyal: This is obviously a topic that, another topic that I’m very passionate about. And also because it’s about… It’s not about people individually, it’s about the professionals that are seeing hundreds of clients a year or thousands of clients in their lifetime. What I see in the sex industry is that there’s a lot of issues. Ad for those that are interested to really read all of my thoughts, we can put it in the show links. Basically I have an article that is called My Vision… Or the problem with the story, the Problem with the sex Industry, I’m just gonna google it…And it’s on my website. So there’s two articles, one of them “The Problem With Sex Industry”, and the other one is “My Vision for a Conscious Sex Industry”. The problem is that many times… In sex industry by the way, I include anybody who does any service which is considered sexual. It’s not just hookers, it’s not just strippers. It’s not just intimate massage to erotic massage or whatever. Everything which is considered sexual is a part of the sex industry.
Host: Right.
Eyal: And right now, the sex industry is basically pertaining to or addressing what the client wants or what the client thinks that they need, and then their service provider gives them a service as if they were ordering from a menu. So somebody would go to an escort or even just to a so called tantric massage practitioner, and she would give him a routine massage and many times it would include a happy ending, and this is the service. And what happens is that those men… And again, there’s obviously men like me who give services to women, but generally its men clients and women providers. And what happens to those men is that they don’t learn anything new, they don’t really get empowered in their sexuality, it just… what’s the word, reinforces the same problematic patterns that men have. And again, I’m generalizing a lot, but let’s say I’ve talked with enough sexual practitioners to know about this. And in terms of the women, the women would sometimes be subjected and subjectified as objects and not as healers, not as goddesses. They might call themself a goddess, but they’re not really empowered.
Host: Yeah.
Eyal: What I’ve seen, what I want to see, so the other article is My Vision for a Conscious Sex Industry, is that people go to sexual healers and sexual practitioners, and the sexual practitioner decides what they give them, what they do for them. So a man might come to a sexual practitioner and she would just caress him for an hour. And that caressing him for an hour and giving him love and tenderness, she would determine, she would decide that this is what he needs. And yes, maybe he needs his cock sucked as well. It’s not just about one thing, it’s about having practitioners who are professional enough and empowered enough, independent enough to make the right call, not to give the clients what they want, what they ask for, but giving them what the practitioner feels that they need. Actually just going back to the problems, it’s not just about touch-based services, about peep shows and erotic dancing and all of this stuff. The problem with that is again the objectifying of the women. They have to wear these seemingly sexy clothes and high heels. They dance in these freezing cold clubs, and it’s all very fake. There’s actually conscious erotic dancing. My ex-partner, a woman called Vanessa Florence created the dancing Eros in Australia. Dancing Eros is women who are not practitioners, I don’t know how to call it, laypeople, laywomen, just women, accountants and whatever, Yoga teachers and nurses, single moms and stay at home moms and whatever, learning conscious erotic dancing and then performing or making a ritual in front of their partners.
Host: Beautiful.
Eyal: I attended those rituals and it’s beautiful to see women who are not sex workers who are going into conscious erotic dance.
Host: Right.
Eyal: and the idea is for the men to see their women in their real pleasure, in their real power, in their vulnerability. Ad this is something which is transformational for both men and women to watch. Sometimes in these rituals there’s also women witnesses. There’s no touch, there’s no nothing. There’s just the dancers dancing, and the witnesses are witnessing. This is also what I picture that can be on a professional level. I envision, it’s a vision shared by the creators of dancing Eros and other conscious erotic dance around the world, the vision is to have temples where men and women go and watch, generally women but also men embody the goddess, embody the god. Be really the body, express pleasure, and it’s amazing to watch that. Some of the pleasure in watching porn is to watch somebody in their pleasure, but porn is usually fake. The bodies are fake, the expressions of pleasure are fake, everything’s fake.
Host: Yah.
Eyal: But if you watch a woman on a half an hour orgasmic state that she achieves just from breathing and moving, this is a life-changing experience just to witness it.
Host: Right.
Eyal: Just to be aware that it’s available. That it’s possible.
Host: That’s beautiful. I’m totally on the same page with you – I would love to see women-owned, cooperative, collective Eros entertainment centers that are nonprofit, for-profit, clinical, religious, there’s so many different… In the US, there’s a lot of repression of all things progressive with sexuality, but there’s also wild new precedents being set every day. I don’t know what’s gonna happen in the next few years, but probably a lot of proactive activism around all things in this industry.
Eyal: Yeah.
Host: It just seems… I think we’ll agree it’s this whole sexual economic system is skewed towards the endpoint of male ejaculation and every aspect of it is like this funnel, this slippery slope funnel, downward spiral to that point of surrendering that energy. Have you studied any of the gnostic, esoteric wisdom tradition stuff around there being greater astral implications if we’re ejaculating or perhaps feeding… if we’re mindlessly ejaculating, we could be perhaps feeding the dark forces of the unseen spirit world? Is that something you’ve delved into? You may not be teaching that at business seminars, but in your own studies.
Eyal: Yeah. I’ve studied at what I consider one of the best Tantra schools, which is like proper Tantra, Traditional Tantra, just part of it is sexuality.
Host: Right.
Eyal: One of the best Tantra schools in the world, which is Agama Yoga in Thailand. I’ve studied for years basically all the traditional Tantra and the Tantric arts and very advanced Yogic practices and meditation retreats, tons of 10-day silent meditation retreats, darkness meditation retreats where I spent a few days in complete darkness… So yeah, a lot of that I still have that knowledge and information, but I choose not to talk about it too much, cause I wanna make it more accessible to people. I’m a very practical person. If I ask somebody: “What happens if you ejaculate five times in a row?” they’ll tell me: “I feel half-dead.”
Host: [laughs]
Eyal: So for me, that’s a good enough proof that ejaculation drains you of energy.
Host: Hearing you say it that way, and I know that feeling, when I was younger it sort of… You can get away with it easier when you’re younger for hormonal reasons, that’s your prime, that’s when you’re supposed to be out there doing it. If we think about it, where does that energy go? Just off into the abyss where there’s nothing lurking to feed on it? I don’t think so. I think there’s probably things out there that benefit from males bleeding their energy into the ether and maybe that’s what that cult of ejaculation and porn is about, this kind of more than meets the eye… you can say that about any addiction – maybe there’s more than just physiology, if you